I have 30+ acres and would not be opposed to have them here, but how many residents would reject the idea of having them here. Most say we must have green tech. but are not willing to go forth with the effort.

Come on people. Wind is part of our natural resources. Take advantage of it . Don't fight it. Take a ride down highway 41 in indiana who is way ahead of us naturally. The farms are dotted with beautiful futuristic wind turbines. Michigan folk have to stop fighting the future and especially ludington. Cottage owners who don;t want to see them are narrow minded self interested folks. Take a trip to the Netherlands. They have been capturing energy from the wind for years and it is beautiful. This idea that there has to be someplace where it won;t effect anyone is totally absurd...We live on this planet together.

I live in ME. We are inundated with wind farm developers. In our hearings , wind farm executives had unlimited time to push wind farms. Citizens three minutes. As opposition grew, our state govt just did away with hearings in the poorer areas of the state. Check out windaction.org. cohoctonwindwatch . Get educated quickly. If you are having the same kind of experiences that we have had...by the time the public knows anything about the proposed wind farm...the local and state govt. officials have their mind's made up. To approve. Most undemocratic.

Lot's of "not in my back yard'ers(or lake front view)" on this one. Of coarse you can't expect the people who vacation here to even consider something that would bring decent jobs to the area. I am not saying I am completely for it, I just can't stand people(double for people who don't actually live and work here) from saying "no way". You just have to wait and see what all the pros and cons are, or you can just say "no way, I don't want to look at it". Not too mention, I think the real locals should have a little more say than some vacationer.

The winter is the best time to hold the meeting. The people who are REALLY affected by the turbines are still here. Not the yuppies from down south who think there part of the community because we own a million dollar home on the beach and we can do what we want. I'm not from the area but living here for over 3 years and thats the feeling I get from the "Southerners".

I think they should put the windmills out of view from the tallest bluff on the shoreline. It's a big lake. At the meeting he said they would not go deeper because of the cost. I guess it will cut into their profit. I think we should reject them and wait for another company who is willing to do this. Esther retired to Ludington for the view.

Does the term "NIMBY" mean anything to anyone ?..I want it ..I just don't want it here??A bunch of fools..

We totally concur. The timing was not only impossible for those of us who live at a distance, but for those close at hand, as well, a meeting scheduled so close to the holidays and with such short notice hardly seems intended to make it possible for all those affected to attend.

The "vacationers" and "non-locals" that you are bashing are helping to keep your economy alive in a time when Michigan has the highest unemployment rate in the country. We have a strong dedication to shop at your privately owned small businesses and grocers instead of the Wal-Marts and Meiers. We attend your art fairs, eat at your restaurants, employ your contractors and construction workers. We are an important part of your community and yes, we DO care about Ludington, Pentwater, and the surrounding areas. Many of us want to retire here!! The lake is Michigan's largest most important asset - it should be left alone! Yes - drive thru Indiana and see the turbines - ON THE LAND. The opposition is to the PLACEMENT of these turbines, not the idea of using them. And notice that none of these renderings show a sunset with turbines sprawled across the horizon. Each of you should drive to the lake at sunset and relish the view while you can. It may forever be lost...

It is unfortunate to see some of the above comments regarding "southerners". As a seasonal resident of the area I fully understand that the Pentwater / Ludington community needs to economically survive and thrive 365 days a year. My concern is that the 200 jobs that will be permanently created following the completion of this project will not be able to come close to offset the loss of jobs as a result of “southerners” vacationing in towns north or south of the Pentwater / Ludington area. The reality is that people who vacation in the area are drawn to the area to enjoy the lake and the spectacular scenery of the area. With the vacationers comes millions of dollars that are injected into the local economy. Whether the dollars are spent on filling the car with gas, a day of fishing aboard a chartered fishing boat, eating a great burger at the Brown Bear, or listening to live music at Michaels, they are still being injected to keep the local economy running. These dollars pay for thousands of jobs and trickle into every facet of the region. When the windmills are installed the “southerners” will still come to enjoy Lake Michigan, but not in Pentwater or Ludington. The communities of Manistee, Grand Haven, and Traverse City will see tremendous growth spurts. Property values along the shoreline will plummet and so will the tax revenue generated from their property taxes. Schools and public services will suffer. None of us that visit and enjoy the area and the fine people that live there wants to see this happen. Yes, we will fight to keep these windmills from going up, but not just to protect our property values, but to protect an entire area we all value so much. Every “southerner” that works hard all year long to save our money so that we can spend it in Pentwater / Ludington will be affected.

The "vacationers", "yuppies", and "non-locals" that you are bashing are helping to keeping the economy alive in a time when Michigan has the highest unemployment rate in the country; seriously - let's have a little respect. The chronic delineation that's being made between locals and out-of-state people needs to stop. We are still members of your communities. We have a strong dedication to shop at your privately owned small businesses and grocers instead of the Wal-Marts and Meiers. We attend your art fairs, eat at your restaurants, employ your contractors and construction workers, and pay property tax. We are an important part of your community and yes, we DO care about Ludington, Pentwater, and the surrounding areas. Many of us want to retire here!! It is foolish to think that we only care when it suits us. The lake is Michigan's largest most important asset - it should be left alone! Yes - drive thru Indiana and see the turbines - ON THE LAND. The opposition is to the PLACEMENT of these turbines, not the idea of using them. And notice that none of these renderings show a sunset with turbines sprawled across the horizon. If this passes, each of you should drive to the lake at sunset and relish the spectacular view while you can - a view that possibly the locals take advantage of. It may forever be lost...

"Southerners?!" I live in Wisconsin, but have been coming to Bass Lake my entire life (44 years). My family owns a little cottage (not a million dollar one, not even close) but I feel as we have as much stake in this as others who live there permanently. I love the area and feel that putting the wind turbines in the lake is a mistake.

Although some of us don't live here year-round, we still pay local taxes. Therefore, we have just as much standing as full-time residents. And not all of us have "million dollar" homes. Educate yourselves, people, on wind power: www.wind-watch.org is a good starting point. Why do we need more power? Who needs it? Who will pay for it (taxpayers: subsidizing private industry to build unnecessary wind farm that will generate electricity that they will sell back to us at inflated prices because of the inherent inefficiency of wind power)? What coal-fired plant will come off-line if this "alternative" project is built? It is not green energy: it pollutes a beautiful natural resource that is the source of our largest income: tourism. And it is not alternative - it is in addition to all the power projects that already exist. This is a bad choice for Mason and Oceana counties.

Attention Pro Wind Farmers: A suggestion: as a true demonstration of your support, and your OWN willingness to sacrifice the interests of the few for the benefit of the many, donate part or all of your real estate property(s) to the state of MI for wind farming. This is of course, if you do indeed actually OWN real estate, much less lake front property. Something tells me that if you actually owned lake front property, your opinion would be different. More on PRO WInd Farmers: 1) probably do not like swimming and waterfront resources and never visit the beaches 2) do not own lake front property 3) are unaware that the word "JOBS" is NOT a one-size-fits-all description or solution to any local economic job crisis (consider technical skill level and nationwide bidding for jobs). If you actually attended the meeting last Tues, you would clearly recall that Mr. Dirdal plainly stated that "possibly 100 to 150 long term jobs would be created, and there is no guarantee that the bidding for these positions would make them local". 4) this side of the state is TOURISM dependent, specifically "resort" tourism (i e long term returning, real estate investing interest) and NOT "transient" short term, spectacle sight seers (want to see it, but I wouldn't want to live there). 5) conveniently overlook the similarly touted "Ludington Pump Project" that in essence is a stand-by battery for Chicago and Detroit and not the be-all, crisis-end-all electrical solution as once promised in the 1970's. 6) do not realize the potential tax loss impact as a result of lakeside property values falling and the inevitable trickle down throughout the entire local communities. Please get your facts straight, and realize we ALL potentially stand to lose something here. And who actually gains here? Detroit and Chicago or some other electrical-power hungry entity? There will be little if any local benefits.

I don't own Lake Front property but I enjoy the Lake throughout the year as do many of my friend and family. We don't need the wind farm here and we don't want it here! Here is some food for thought to the Pro Wind farmers! The Great Lakes were declared to be a national treasure (Presidential Exec. Order 13340 of May 18, 2004). They are a valuable freshwater resource that many governments, agencies, organizations and conservation groups have been trying to restore and protect, especially in this time of climate change that is seeing our freshwater ecology challenged and the world’s freshwater supply dwindle. 1. Aesthetically: Windmills will be a clearly visible eyesore from all points on the south shore and higher buildings inland. There will be no hills or trees to hide them. Offshore windmills are larger than their land based cousins and will fill the 50 to 150 Ft of water band along the south and eastern shores. NYPA is seeking proposal for the construction of up to 500 Megawatts of electrical production. This will require 1,250 turbines rated for 1.6 MW each which operate at a typical 25% efficiency, worldwide. Rochester has plans to develop the harbor area for recreational purposes; Oswego and the Salmon River area have already become well known for their recreational activities especially the world class fishing and hatcheries there. 2. Ecologically: Every aquatic life form in the Great Lakes is dependent upon the nearshore environment at some stage in their life, whether it’s zooplankton, prey or game fish. It is a very frail ecology, especially with the recent colonization of that zone by invasive species such as Zebra & Quagga mussels. Turbine foundations, interconnection and transmission lines will cause aquatic habitat fragmentation and disrupt nesting sites. Studies have shown that fish can sense and are affected by electromagnetic fields. The US Army Corps of Engineers is trying to stop another invasive species (Asian carp) from entering the Great Lakes at the Chicago Sanitary Canal with electricity. Avian fatalities are also a major concern. Especially for migratory birds and water fowl that have established routes through the area to resting places such as the Pump Storage Water Project. 3. Recreationally: Boating collisions occur every year. The sought after proposal will add over 1000 more nautical obstacles for all types of watercraft. Government agencies will create exclusion zones around the turbines and transmission lines for reasons of safety and national security. This will greatly reduce and partition the area where boaters and fishermen frequent. 4. Economically: Effort by the Great Lakes states, US and Canadian governments and their agencies to restore fish populations and habitat has put money into the local economies. It has lead to the establishment of a documented $7 Billion/year Sportfishing industry on the Great Lakes. Windfarms will diminish this. The Lowville windfarm is currently entering a legal battle with NYS as it was recently classified as a “shirt-changer.” Flat Rock/Maple Ridge did not create the additional jobs that its proponents claimed it would. Lewis County is only going to receive 25% of what of was projected for its 2010 budget from that windfarm project. The view of the lake will be ruined and property taxes will be lost as values of the most valuable residential properties in the area will go down. People do not want to live with windmills in view, unless they are getting easement monies for turbines on their land. Individuals will not get easement money if the turbines are located offshore. Electricity generated by wind is more expensive than other means due to construction, maintenance and transmission: The Long Island PA (headed by Mr. Kessel) terminated the proposal for only 40 turbines in the Long Island Sound when they found out that re-bid construction costs would exceed initial estimates by $114M. Access issues for servicing turbines will contribute to increased expenses of electricity. Site choices are based on average yearly wind speed and the day to day and even hourly winds are ignored. Brownouts & surges will become more frequent & severe as the area becomes more dependent on technology that is based upon our unpredictable weather. I.E. “Lake effect”. (Worldwide, without Lake effect, they only operate at 20-25% of name plate capacity.)

The windturbines should be put inland, the developer just doesnt want to pay for land. Basically if they stick the things in the lake in federal waters which are 3 miles out they only lease and pay a small fee to the state the rest goes to the federal government, which gives them subsidies anyway, so they get their money back. Traverse City, Chicago, Detroit, Lake St. Clare region have all rejected letting the turbines in their areas, even though they are the ones that would be benefiting more so then Ludington residents. They still did not want them to destroy their areas. Check out Michiganglow.org for more information on how they plan on selling this to the residents. Also by law they are only required to have 1 meeting in the area and they have to hold 1 in Lansing for the public. Although they plan on holding possible meetings in March. Make sure everyone contacts their local representatives on this issue.

I think I am sick of the trammpeling of property owners rights like If I own land and want a windmill for electricity my nieghbors can keep their opinons to themselves but no listen to the uproar.....gee sounds like they pay my taxes and expenses...how bout you want a junk car in your yard FINE leave me and my windmill alone!!!!

As for the "fudgies" who think their opinions should matter, if they want their opinions to count, they should become full-time residents of Michigan and register to vote here. Like it or not, your opinion doesn't matter unless you're registered to vote.

All the people whining about how the windmills would "ruin their view" really haven't tried to consider what the true visual impact would be. A 300-foot tower located four miles offshore would look no bigger than a matchstick from the shoreline. Let's apply logic to the discussion instead of emotion.

S.W. Thanks for that information.

God help us all Tiny Tim. Anything but this. Well within reason. $3 billion is a lot of money to recoup in electric bills and with our tax dollar subsidies. Have we all gone nuts?? Just take a look at West Texas where the landscape is covered with these crazy things. T. Boone Pickens at his best. At least they are out in the middle of nowhere--not in our precious Lake. Anyway wind is much overrated and doesn't generate enough to gain anywhere near $3 billion in returns, ever! Are we missing something here?

Some states use the new found tax revenue to help subsidize their schools and we all know our schools are broke so maybe mason and oceana counties would direct that money for our kids education.

The invective between part time and full time residents in this discourse is truly disturbing. The fact that year-round residents don't understand the value of those of us who pay taxes in Michigan is quite upsetting. We are NOT all millionaires - or anywhere close to millionaires. Moreover, we pay taxes WITHOUT REPRESENTATION. We are not allowed to vote for our local or state representatives - a condition that was one of the precipitating factors in the American Revolution. As for turbines offshore, dedhed needs to be better informed. The turbines are not only taller than 300 feet, they will NOT be 4 miles offshore. In fact, south near Pentwater and Silver Lake, they will be only 2 miles offshore. And the visibility changes dramatically when photos are taken from the elevated position of most homes and not from the beach itself. This is fact - not emotion, dedhed. And unlike the lovely, sculptural photos of a single line of graceful white turbines you all may have seen, this project will be a veritable city - 100 square miles - of turbines. And once it's in place, it isn't going away - EVER. As technology rapidly progresses toward putting wind farms farther out to sea, we will have the experimental version of a windfarm close to shore. I would also ask everyone who is truly interested and objective to conduct a thorough search of this emerging technology. You'll find that the proposed Lake Michigan wind farm will be the LARGEST OFFSHORE WINDFARM IN THE WORLD. Is that a distinction to be desired by a community whose prosperity is largely dependent upon tourism and property taxes paid by the dreaded 'southerners'.

I guess I'm a "Southerner" (really never thought of it that way). But I own lakefront property, and plan to retire in Ludington. Since buying this property 20 years ago, I have employed several people on a regular basis to do maintenance and jobs that I cannot be there for, like lawncare, plowing, etc. I have bought appliances, furniture, air conditioners, heating units, etc. for my home, all from Ludington businesses. Hundreds of other homeowners like me employ hundreds of Ludington/Pentwater residents, eat in your restaurants and shop in your stores. Things aren't so great up there right now economically, and if you would realize that tourism is all you have, you would all fight like heck to get rid of this ridiculous plan for a company to make huge profits while ruining what makes this area special. Don't believe for one minute that any money will be given to schools -- it won't. It will be going to shareholders, and there will be tax breaks given to the company so don't think you will see revenue come in to the state, county or municipalities, let alone school districts. The so-called jobs that will be created are not guaranteed. No one at this point can even tell you what kind of jobs they would be, or the qualifications needed for them. When there is a summer of bad weather, or high gas prices, the town suffers. When there is a wind farm obstructing the sunset as visitors sit on the beach or sail by a few miles offshore, they are going to think, "Why did I come here? If I want to see tall steel structures I would stay in Chicago/Detroit/Milwaukee." And when they stay away, so will their money. Every time they stay away it hurts, but its usually only temporary. This time it could be permanent.

For all you people who come to ludington for the view well the wind farm is not in front of ludington.......

Wind farms aren’t bad; they just need to be properly regulated! This is my third posting on this project. My first two were in direct opposition to the wind farm, but after a more careful analysis, I realized I made an error in my comments. I am a financial planner by trade and I am always looking at an enterprise for its profit potential. In an effort to be more knowledgeable in this arena I began to do research about wind farms. With all due respects to the scientists and engineers, I have formulated the following “amateur” opinion. When I first started my research I stumbled across an independently prepared report drafted in 2004 and modified in 2008 for the Governor's office regarding the feasibility of wind farming in Michigan. That report linked me to other reports similar in nature. After studying the information, I agree with the conclusion that this is a really good place to have a wind farm, and perhaps, the best darn place ever to have a wind farm. I also studied the potential construction of the towers and their mountings to the lake bed. In my findings, I discovered that the cheapest method of underwater mounting is a single pole mount that is effective in 30 meters of water or less. This is ideal for our near beach environment. Additionally, there is proven technology that has been already implemented elsewhere, that uses a more sophisticated mount that allows for installation in waters up to 60 meters. The cost is almost double for an installation of this type. As a side note, all of the aforementioned technology appears to have been effective in ocean and saltwater environments. From my findings, none of this technology has been thoroughly tested in the ice packed and sandy bottom waters of eastern Lake Michigan. In my opinion, as a bit of tree hugger, wind power is great and should be developed everywhere including in front of our shorelines. The argument of "not-in-my-backyard" is selfish. I think that rather than fighting the whole project to get it permanently stopped, we should consider a more popular approach. The approach I am leaning towards is adjusting the regulation as to the placement of offshore wind farms. Right now the proposal is to build the wind farm for the cheapest possible cost. The developers are business people and that is their job. They won't want to go out further into the lake if they can avoid it because that would cost more and it might take them twice as much time to recover their costs and turn a profit. Unfortunately, as all business has done for years, they are simply making themselves more profitable at the expense of others, namely the local economy. Our argument should be that we agree with the development of wind farms in front of Oceana and Mason Counties, but developed to be symbiotic with the local economy and not counterproductive. If I am not mistaken, the development of wind power is to eventually aid in permanently making the US energy independent without creating a larger environmental footprint. In that notion, profit is not, and should not, be the primary driving force. If the wind farm were to be placed out at the 15 mile mark several benefits are derived for everyone except maybe the investors of the power company. First, according to most studies I read, the wind is actually more consistent further out in the lake as we have all witnessed first handed. Second, at that distance, the local fisherman, pleasure boaters and sailors will by and large, not be impacted as they will still have freedom to navigate in the waters they are accustomed to. Third, at that distance, the sound will be virtually impossible to hear in any wind environment. Fourth, the windmills will be in less danger of being damaged by packed ice during the winter months. Finally, with the windmills placed out 15 miles, at beach elevation, the towers should be virtually invisible thanks to the curvature of the earth, thus preserving the local economy and beauty of the Great Lakes. We should strive in our effort to help drive the standards for which this and all other wind farms are to be developed. If the developers complain that the technology is too expensive today then they should do one of two things; they should either reconsider the project and the timetable for which it will become profitable, or postpone the project for a few years until the technology is more developed and some of the R&D costs have been burned off. Let’s work together with our county officials and our elected representatives in both Lansing and Washington to develop these standards to preserve everyone's rights, and not shift expenses from one group to another. If successful, we can help forge the proper development of wind farms in all of the Great Lakes!

SOLUTION: put the turbines in the Ludington Pump Resovoir!...and around the immediate surrounding lands! There are many acres of unused land around the pump project.

I would take a windmill 3 miles offshore any day instead of a coal plant or nuclear plant of any fossil fuel burning plant. And all you out of towne's from the city where you think all that power will go ha to the city for your year around use. no foreign oil thank you

IMO, Jeffrey Hoenle is on the right track with his thinking. Although I'd like him to post references. Two things stand out, however. First, he mentions pack ice. I hadn't thought of this issue, but it is huge. With climate change (where the mean temperature goes up a little, but the increase drives the standard deviation up even faster, so that there is an *increased* likelihood of a *colder* and *harsher* winter every 10-20 years [counter-intuitive, but true]), there will be at least one winter during the lifetime of the windmill towers where pack ice could completely destroy the towers. I'd like to see analysis of how this effect can be overcome. I've seen wind-driven piles of iceflows down south of Holland, 10+ feet tall, which destroyed lakefront homes. The power of ice is phenomenal. Jeffrey says to site the windmills 15 mi out. Given the depth charts from NOAA I have seen, the water is likely to be too deep for present anchoring technology. Also, what is the data regarding extent of pack ice? Is 15 mi really safe? Somebody at NOAA or USGS should have this.

Will the wind turbines have lights at night?